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	<title>Comments on: The Zomb</title>
	<atom:link href="http://camba.ucsd.edu/blog/phonoloblog/2005/11/01/the-zomb/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://camba.ucsd.edu/blog/phonoloblog/2005/11/01/the-zomb/</link>
	<description>all things phonology &#124; camba.ucsd.edu/phonoloblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://camba.ucsd.edu/blog/phonoloblog/2005/11/01/the-zomb/#comment-1656</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2006 20:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camba.ucsd.edu/phonoloblog/?p=233#comment-1656</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Whether it's [za:mb] or [za:m] for the shortened version, the guy had a great costume idea with Arthur Zombarelli.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether it&#8217;s [za:mb] or [za:m] for the shortened version, the guy had a great costume idea with Arthur Zombarelli.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Hayes</title>
		<link>http://camba.ucsd.edu/blog/phonoloblog/2005/11/01/the-zomb/#comment-1655</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camba.ucsd.edu/phonoloblog/?p=233#comment-1655</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can add to Eric's observation that the rendition of the word &lt;i&gt;iamb&lt;/i&gt; with final [mb] seems to be a popular non-normative pronunciation.  I think this is due to to some combination of orthographic influence and the fact that &lt;i&gt;iamb&lt;/i&gt; is rare in comparison with &lt;i&gt;iambic&lt;/i&gt;, so that &lt;i&gt;iambic&lt;/i&gt; may serve in some sense as the morphological base of &lt;i&gt;iamb&lt;/i&gt; (see work of Jen Hay).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There's also an issue here concerning how people project their intuitions about phonotactics into the magic region of zero-frequency forms.  Note that final [mb] occupies the empty field of a so-called "L-shaped region", thus:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;nt nʧ ŋk mp&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;nd nʤ -- --&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I believe that such L-shaped regions are ripe territory for generalization, filling in the gap in the L.  The reason, perhaps, is that the simplest characterization that avoids logical disjunction ("final N + stop ok") projects the missing forms.  To characterize only the attested forms of the L, one has to use disjunction ("in final N + stop, the stop must be either voiceless or coronal").&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I believe that the L-shaped region phenomenon was first pointed out by Edward Sapir, who (somewhere) noticed the L-shaped region for word-initial fricatives in English:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;f θ s ʃ&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;v ð z --&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The existence of this region tends to make English speakers comfortable with borrowings like &lt;i&gt;soup du jour&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Zhivago,&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i&gt;Zhirinovsky&lt;/i&gt;.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;--Bruce Hayes&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can add to Eric&#8217;s observation that the rendition of the word <i>iamb</i> with final [mb] seems to be a popular non-normative pronunciation.  I think this is due to to some combination of orthographic influence and the fact that <i>iamb</i> is rare in comparison with <i>iambic</i>, so that <i>iambic</i> may serve in some sense as the morphological base of <i>iamb</i> (see work of Jen Hay).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also an issue here concerning how people project their intuitions about phonotactics into the magic region of zero-frequency forms.  Note that final [mb] occupies the empty field of a so-called &#8220;L-shaped region&#8221;, thus:</p>
<p>nt nʧ ŋk mp</p>
<p>nd nʤ &#8212; &#8211;</p>
<p>I believe that such L-shaped regions are ripe territory for generalization, filling in the gap in the L.  The reason, perhaps, is that the simplest characterization that avoids logical disjunction (&#8221;final N + stop ok&#8221;) projects the missing forms.  To characterize only the attested forms of the L, one has to use disjunction (&#8221;in final N + stop, the stop must be either voiceless or coronal&#8221;).</p>
<p>I believe that the L-shaped region phenomenon was first pointed out by Edward Sapir, who (somewhere) noticed the L-shaped region for word-initial fricatives in English:</p>
<p>f θ s ʃ</p>
<p>v ð z &#8211;</p>
<p>The existence of this region tends to make English speakers comfortable with borrowings like <i>soup du jour</i>, <i>Zhivago,</i> <i>Zhirinovsky</i>.  </p>
<p>&#8211;Bruce Hayes</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Bakovic</title>
		<link>http://camba.ucsd.edu/blog/phonoloblog/2005/11/01/the-zomb/#comment-1654</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Bakovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camba.ucsd.edu/phonoloblog/?p=233#comment-1654</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, the distinction was between [za:m] (unreleased, completely nasal) and [za:mb] (oral release). At least, I &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; I heard [za:m] originally, but I could of course be mistaken: it was a relatively noisy situation, and I'm sure I was expecting [za:m] given that there are no words with final [mb] in English.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The reason I got interested (and asked my friend to repeat it) is because I thought that I finally had something other than the old &lt;i&gt;bomb&lt;/i&gt; [ba:m] ~ &lt;i&gt;bombard&lt;/i&gt; example -- and something novel and fun-in-a-geeky-way besides -- to use as evidence for the relevant deletion process. But given that I don't have recorded evidence, and insistence from my "consultants" that they think it's [za:mb], I'm discouraged ...&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the distinction was between [za:m] (unreleased, completely nasal) and [za:mb] (oral release). At least, I <i>think</i> I heard [za:m] originally, but I could of course be mistaken: it was a relatively noisy situation, and I&#8217;m sure I was expecting [za:m] given that there are no words with final [mb] in English.</p>
<p>The reason I got interested (and asked my friend to repeat it) is because I thought that I finally had something other than the old <i>bomb</i> [ba:m] ~ <i>bombard</i> example &#8212; and something novel and fun-in-a-geeky-way besides &#8212; to use as evidence for the relevant deletion process. But given that I don&#8217;t have recorded evidence, and insistence from my &#8220;consultants&#8221; that they think it&#8217;s [za:mb], I&#8217;m discouraged &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Bradley</title>
		<link>http://camba.ucsd.edu/blog/phonoloblog/2005/11/01/the-zomb/#comment-1653</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 03:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camba.ucsd.edu/phonoloblog/?p=233#comment-1653</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So your friend originally pronounced &lt;i&gt;Zomb&lt;/i&gt; without the final stop, and only when prompted to repeat it did he (and everybody else) insist upon the final stop? If there really is a contrast between [za:m]/&lt;em&gt;[za:mb] and [fa:nz]/&lt;/em&gt;[fa:n], then maybe it has to do with perceptibility: internal cues of the fricative save it from deletion, whereas the lack of CV transitional cues (and internal cues) make the final stop harder to hear. I bet that when prompted to repeat &lt;i&gt;Zomb&lt;/i&gt;, they released the final stop, no? (Incidentally, when joking around with a friend, I used to pronounce &lt;i&gt;dumb&lt;/i&gt; as [dʌmbʱ] for comedic effect.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So your friend originally pronounced <i>Zomb</i> without the final stop, and only when prompted to repeat it did he (and everybody else) insist upon the final stop? If there really is a contrast between [za:m]/<em>[za:mb] and [fa:nz]/</em>[fa:n], then maybe it has to do with perceptibility: internal cues of the fricative save it from deletion, whereas the lack of CV transitional cues (and internal cues) make the final stop harder to hear. I bet that when prompted to repeat <i>Zomb</i>, they released the final stop, no? (Incidentally, when joking around with a friend, I used to pronounce <i>dumb</i> as [dʌmbʱ] for comedic effect.)</p>
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